Knowledgeable Narrator [00:00:00]:
If Christ is king, how should the Christian consider the kingdoms of this world? What does the Bible teach us about human authority? And what it means to love our neighbors and our enemies? Before we render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s, let’s know what it means to render unto God what is God’s. This is the Biblical Anarchy Podcast, the modern prophetic voice against war and
Jacob Winograd [00:00:31]:
empire. Well, hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Biblical Anarchy podcast, project of the Libertarian Christian Institute and part of our Christians for Liberty network. I am your host, Jacob Winograd, here on a, it’ll be a weird episode of the biblical anarchy podcast today. I actually don’t know if this is gonna be a bonus episode or if I’ll make it a regular episode. I’ll probably decide that in the edit after this is done. But the reason why this episode is gonna be weird is that it’s sort of an audible, because it’s not my regularly scheduled program. I have to well, it’ll it’ll make sense here in in a minute. As you guys know, I’ve been doing a deep dive into eschatology and the kingdom of God and all all sorts of stuff like that.
Jacob Winograd [00:01:21]:
And you also know that I recently had a 5th child and know that things have been pretty hectic on my end. So setting the stage here a little bit, kind of explain what going on. In the last episode, which was episode 75, we were diving specifically into old testament prophets and how they viewed the messianic kingdom and the new covenant. And in that discussion, somewhere in the middle of the episode, I brought up the passage Isaiah 9 as I was with many other passages. And what I generally try to do is appeal to theologians and church fathers to see what they said and see how it, you know, might match up with or be similar to something I’m saying, just to provide, you know, at least a summary argument that the views I’m arguing for are not novel in a sense. I mean, I hope I’m arguing for ideas that are somewhat unique in presentation, and I hope through the grace of the holy spirit in my particular gifting and insight like, I I I do a podcast because I think I can do a good job at analyzing these things, but I I don’t think I’m infallible. And I do generally think that if someone comes up with some idea or or interpretation that’s just kind of completely brand new, we should be highly skeptical. My gosh.
Jacob Winograd [00:02:51]:
Skeptical of that. And so that’s why I often cite different theologians and church fathers to sort of build a case that, hey, there’s actually some, you know, continuity and some crossover with the ideas I’m talking about, and what the general historic views have been, or at least, you know, what some of the views that have always existed within the church, because there’s always been, I guess, a diversity. Well, one of the church fathers I referenced when I brought up Isaiah 9 was Athanasius. And I was looking through my notes when I was doing this episode, and I quoted what I believed at the time when I was recording to be his direct words. But after reviewing my notes and because I was listening back to the episode, I always listen back to my my content. I realized that what I gave was actually not a direct quote from Athanasius, but rather I mixed up what I had typed out as, like, a summary of his views or sort of, like, my interpretation of his views. And I read it as if it was a direct quote from Athanasius. I just didn’t catch at the time of recording because it’s been kind of a crazy couple months for me.
Jacob Winograd [00:04:01]:
And my notes are also just the things of nightmares in terms of just, like, it they’re not cohesive because I’m reading things. I’m listening to things on audiobooks and whatnot, making notes as I go, and it’s kind of a mismatch. And I kinda then try to sort through it and make sense of it, add my own stuff. And if I had been a bit more prepared and maybe a little bit less rushed, I would have caught that. And so I wanna just kind of get it out of the way and say, hey, I made a mistake. Maybe not the worst mistake in the world, but it’s somewhat important. I think it’s important when we’re talking about these arguments, like I said, to sort of look at church history. And I do wanna make sure I’m accurately re representing the views of church fathers and theologians like Athanasius.
Jacob Winograd [00:04:49]:
So now that said, while what I read and the wording I gave in that sort of what actually was a summary, while that wasn’t his exact wording, it wasn’t something he exactly said. The ideas that I gave in that summary are, I think, very much in line with the views and the theology of Athanasius. So in this yet to be determined, maybe bonus episode, maybe just a full episode on its own, I wanna dive deeper into Athanasius’ writings and explore how his views align with the points that I’ve been trying to make regarding the messianic kingdom and the new covenant in connection with passages in Isaiah and other prophetic texts. And so, yeah, this might be good. Maybe it’s kinda like a an act of providence that I screwed up because now I get to focus more on Athanasius in a solo episode. I don’t know. I’m kinda thinking I might turn this into I was thinking maybe it was like a short bonus episode, like a supplement, but I don’t know. I’m I I might just wanna make it a full episode because I think Athanasius is one of the coolest church fathers to to read about.
Jacob Winograd [00:05:56]:
When you read through his different writings, he he just I I don’t know. I love he he’s very fiery. Like, you when you read his style of talking about these ideas, you just the the passion, the energy, the conviction that he had. And just sort of like the same like, I I almost feel like I’m kind like a kindred spirit because he sees the same connections that I do. And he’s like a he he seems to be excited about them in the same way. So let’s let’s dive a little bit into this then. I wanna I I gave a little bit of, I guess, back background on Athanasius in the last episode, but we can maybe do that a little bit again here. So Athanasius of Alexandria, and he had a lot of different names that, you know, sometimes called Athanasius the great or Athanasius the confessor.
Jacob Winograd [00:06:48]:
He was a Christian theologian. He was the 20th patriarch of Alexandria. And so he he spanned 45 years in the episcopacy, which was from 328 to 3 73. And, yeah, he’s considered a chief proponent of Nicene theology against the anti Nicenes and is known for his works on the incarnation, which was sort of against Arianism and and and Judaism. And also he wrote a lot of what are called the these Easter letters or what are called festal letters. And they’re a series of annual letters where the bishops of Alexandria would basically just make these giant long letters sort of celebrating the the the feast that was to be celebrated on on Easter. And I guess this was a decision that was made at the First Council of Nicaea, and then they announced the date on which Easter was to be celebrated. And then they had these letters that would come from the bishops of Alexandria going forward.
Jacob Winograd [00:07:57]:
So not all I think there’s 45 sorry. There’s actually a lot of these letters, but 45 of them are far are are attributed to Athanasius. There’s some that I think are missing. I’m just kinda going over some of the basic stuff I have here. This isn’t maybe the most relevant. But, again, Athanasius is just so cool. Even, like, some of the, you know, someone who’s even studied, like, the how we got our canon. I mean, Athanasius is one of the first to sort of make a list of the books in the in the old and new testament.
Jacob Winograd [00:08:26]:
And he’s even one of the church fathers to sort of label the apocryphal books as not being part of the canon of scripture. Although even there, it’s not quite accurate. He doesn’t count the book of Esther as being part of the canon, which we think it is. So but it’s just kinda cool to see how he was part of this process of the development of the canon. He has a really important place in church history. He’s venerated by a lot of traditions and Christians with Protestant, Orthodox, Catholic. You know, he’s one of the good ones. So alright.
Jacob Winograd [00:08:59]:
Let’s now dive. I wanna just give a little again, I’m I’m just nerding out here a little bit about Athanasius. But let’s now dive into now that I’ve kind of clarified the mix up that happened and give a little background on Athanasius himself, I wanna go into his writings and see how these do support the themes that we’ve been talking about, including the fulfillment of old testament prophecy such as in Isaiah and elsewhere. So first, I want to talk about Athanasius talking about Jesus, the the Christ, in relation to King David. Now this is important. This is so if you let me go back to I have the quote here, what I read. So this is what I read in episode 75. This is actually a summary of of his views that I wrote down, that the throne of David is no longer an earthly throne, but a symbol of the eternal reign of Christ who rules spiritually over the hearts of believers and will ultimately bring peace and justice in its fullest sense in the new creation.
Jacob Winograd [00:10:07]:
Now these are not the words of Athanasius. This is a summary of how I I think Athanasius views the throne of David in relationship to Christ and how it points forward to the king the kingship and kingdom of Christ. So let’s dive into what I mean by that. So in, his writing on the incarnation, Athanasius does make a comparison between Jesus and the great kings of Israel, including King David. He highlights how Christ, unlike these earthly kings, reigned with power and sovereignty even before his birth. And so in this sense, Athanasius is directly tying in the prophecy in Isaiah 9 as well as elsewhere. There’s the, you know, for to us a child is born and to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he’s, you know so then what will this is from on the incarnation and this is on the incarnation separated into these different different sections.
Jacob Winograd [00:11:09]:
This is from section 36. So he says I’m actually gonna read the expanded version here. So we alright. So, yeah, this is 36. It’s labeled prophecies of Christ’s sovereignty flight into Egypt. But what king and, again, this is now now I’m actually quoting Athanasius. Okay? So but but what king that ever was before he had strength to call father or mother reigned and gained triumph over his enemies? Did not David come to the throne at 30 years of age and Solomon when he had grown to be a young man? Did not Joaz enter on the kingdom when he was 7 years old? And Josias, a still later king, received the government about the 7th year of his age. And yet at this at that age had strength to call father or mother.
Jacob Winograd [00:12:02]:
Who then is there that was reigning and spoiling his enemies almost before his birth? Or what king of this sort ever has ever been in Israel and in Judah? Let the Jews who have searched out the matter tell us, in whom all the nations have placed their hopes and had peace instead of being at enmity with them on every side. For as long as Jerusalem has stood, there was war without respite between them, and they all fought with Israel. The Assyrians oppressed them. The eag the Egyptians persecuted them. The Babylonians fell upon them. And strange to say, they even, they had even the Syrians, their neighbors at war against them. Or did David not war against them of Moab and smite the Syrians? Josias guard against his neighbors and Zacchaeus quail at the boasting of Hiram, and Amalek make war against Moses, and the Amorites oppose him. And the inhabitants of Jericho array themselves against Jesus, son of of Neihu or Nawai.
Jacob Winograd [00:13:07]:
I don’t know how to pronounce this word this name. In a in a word, treaties of friendship had no place between the nations of and Israel. Who then it is on whom the nations are to set their hope? It is worthwhile to see for there must be such a one as it is impossible for the prophet to have spoken falsely. But which of the holy prophets or of the early patriarchs has died on the cross for the salvation of all, or who was wounded and destroyed for the healing of all, or which of the righteous men or kings went down to Egypt so that at his coming, the idols of Egypt fell for Abraham went there, but idol idolatry prevailed universally all the same. Moses was born there, and the diluted worship of the people was there nonetheless. So that he that this is then gonna go into section 37, which I’ll get into a minute. But isn’t it so like, again, like he he’s speaking to the sort of typological journey that Israel goes through and fails the Israelites go through and fail for that Jesus succeeds in, which was a major point that I I had been making over the past several episodes. And then the sorry, we switched back over to here.
Jacob Winograd [00:14:27]:
Yeah. Athanasius is emphasizing that while earthly kings like David and Solomon took the throne at a mature age, Christ’s reign and victory began in infancy, fulfilling the unique role prophesied in Isaiah 9. His kingdom is not like those of the past characterized by military conquest or political power, but a divine kingship established through his incarnation and ultimately his sacrificial death. And this ties directly into the messianic vision presented in Isaiah 9. Just to read Isaiah 9 again here. For to us a child, this is verses 6 through 7. For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called wonderful counselor, mighty god, everlasting father, prince of peace, of the increase of his government, and of peace, there will be no no end. On the throne of David and over his kingdom to establish it and uphold it with justice and with righteousness.
Jacob Winograd [00:15:29]:
From this time forth and forevermore, the zeal of the Lord of hosts will do this. So Athanasius is like quoting from these prophets, quoting from old testament scripture, and he’s you know, like, you know, very he reminds me how Elijah kind of mockingly tells the the the worshipers of of of Baal to, like, you know, call call call upon your your gods and, you know, where are they? They must be sleeping. And, Athanasius is is speaking about you know, it’s like, alright. You know, the the the Jews who have rejected Christ as their messiah, well, the prophet’s words cannot have failed. So and and in the on incarnation, there is a section I’m not gonna get into where he makes an argument from which you you many have made this argument from the book of Daniel looking at the different weeks, how he’s essentially makes the same argument that, like, the Christ has to have already come. So he’s like, so who is it? Like, well, it’s not David. It’s not Moses. It’s not Abraham.
Jacob Winograd [00:16:29]:
It’s not any of these patriarchs. He’s saying, you know, which of the kings and leaders of Israel have accomplished what Jesus has accomplished, where a child was born to to rule and the government is on his shoulders, and he reigns with peace, and he governs the nations with peace. Right? This is what he was talking about. Sorry. We go back here to section 36. He’s saying, like, who, you know, whom and whom all have all the nations placed their hopes and had peace instead of being an enmity. Because I think as long as it never really existed, they were at war. They had conflict.
Jacob Winograd [00:17:08]:
Where whereas Jesus already, you know, Athanasius is writing just in, you know, several 100 years after Christ, but already, the gospel has started to to spread and go out. And they’re seeing kinda how we talked about, like, the the the imagery from Zechariah 14. The living waters of the gospel message have already spread out, and the kingdom of God is already growing and establishing itself here on Earth by this time, but not in this physical manifestation like the kingdom of Israel was. And that’s, like, already just in section 3rd. Like, if I wanted to just kinda, like, make this really short, I could just end it right here and be like, okay. Yeah. I I screwed up by reading the wrong thing last week, but just this section alone shows that, you know, Athanasius, he he’s not talking about the kingdom of God in some sort of, like, far out thing that has to be this physical manifestation. He’s sort of actually, you know, very clearly juxtaposing Christ’s kingdom, which is spiritual in nature with the physical kingdom of Israel and saying Christ is superior in every way, and his his reign and his kingdom is superior in every way.
Jacob Winograd [00:18:20]:
But without having to employ the the means of politics and war and and and sort of earthly means that was all that was at the disposal of of the kings and the and the patriarchs. So let’s keep going though. There’s, there’s just like, that’s just the opening salvo. And, and I’m already, again, I’m nerding out a little bit over it. Like you ever see those memes that are like who would you want to sit next to you on a bus? And they have, like, different church fathers all over it. Like, well, wherever a Athanasius is, you know, there there’s him. There’s Ignatius. There’s I mean, I’m I’m blanking on the other one.
Jacob Winograd [00:18:59]:
But, man, there’s just there’s so many cool church fathers that I’d love to talk to. I look forward to talking to in paradise one day, I suppose, as well. So just forgive me my my my gushing a little bit. And so I’ve been it’s not it’s not the man. It’s the ideas. It’s the it’s the the gospel message that is coming through his words and just that’s it’s just really cool for hate. So, again, Athanasius affirms that no king in Israel or Judah fits the description giving in the prophets except for Christ. Now, so Athanasius then, as we read, points to the superiority of Christ’s kingship over the Old Testament patriarchs and contrasts their deaths with the crucifixion of Christ.
Jacob Winograd [00:19:45]:
So let’s read section 37. Sorry. I have, like, 20 tabs open here. Like, you can’t have all this stuff, like, in a script neatly, and that’s part of the problem here. And so section 37 is on Psalm 22, the majesty of his birth and death. And this kind of, like, is one continuous thought from the so I’ll I’ll start with, like, the last sentence in 36 and then bring in the 37. Or which of the righteous men or kings went down to Egypt so that his coming at his coming, the idols of Egypt fell? For Abraham went there, but idolatry prevailed universally all the same. Moses was born there, and the diluted worship of the people was nonetheless were there nonetheless? Or who among those recorded in scripture was pierced in the hands and feet or hung at all upon a tree and was sank sacrificed on a cross for the salvation of all? For Abraham died ending his life on a bed.
Jacob Winograd [00:20:44]:
Isaac and Jacob also died with their feet raised on a bed. Moses and Aaron died on the mountain, David and his house, without being the object of any conspiracy at the hands of the people. True. He was pursued by Saul, but he was preserved unhurt. Isaias was sawn asunder, but not hung on a tree. Jeremy was shamefully treated, but he did not die under condemnation. Ezekiel suffered, but however not however for the people, but to indicate what was to come upon the people. Again, these, even where they suffered, were men resembling all in their common nature.
Jacob Winograd [00:21:22]:
But he that is declared in scripture to suffer on behalf of all is not called is called not merely man, but the life of all. Albeit he was, in fact, like men in nature. For you shall see, it says, your life hanging before your eyes, and who shall declare his generation? For one can ascertain the genealogy of all the saints and declare it from the beginning and of whom each was born, but the generation of him that is the life the scriptures refer to as not to be declared. Who then is he of whom the divine scriptures say this? Or who is so great that even the prophets predict him of, him of him such great things? None else now is found in the scriptures, but the common savior of all, the word of God, our lord Jesus Christ. For he, it, for he, it is that proceeded from a virgin and appeared as a man on the earth and whose generation after the flesh cannot be declared. For there is none that he can tell his father after the flesh, his body not being of a man, but of a virgin alone, so that no one can declare the corporal generation of the savior from a man in the same way as one can draw up a genealogy of David and of Moses and of all the patriarchs. For he it for he it is that caused the star also to mark the birth of his body, since it was also fit that the word coming down from heaven should have his consolation also from heaven. And it was fitting that the king of creation, when he came forth, should be openly recognized by all creation.
Jacob Winograd [00:23:05]:
Why he was born in Judea, and the men from Persia came to worship him. I think I’ll stop it. There’s more here. We’re able to skip over. He kinda repeats himself. He says, we gotta pick it up here. It is he, it is that even before his appearing in the body won the victory over his demon adversaries and a triumph over idolatry. All heathen, which just means like the non saved, at any rate from every region, abjuring their hereditary tradition and the impiety of idols are now placing their hope in Christ and unrolling themselves under him, the like of which you may see with your own eyes.
Jacob Winograd [00:23:44]:
For at no other time has the impiety of the Egyptians ceased, say, when the lord of all, writing as it were upon a cloud, came down there in body and brought to not the delusion of idols and brought over all to himself and through himself to the father. He it is that was crucified before the son and all creation as witnesses and before those who put him to death, and by his death has salvation come to all, and all creation been ransomed. He is the life of all, and he it is that as a sheep yielded his body to death as a substitute for the salvation of all, even though the Jews still believe it not. I have links to all this in the show notes, but maybe it’s hard to follow along as you’re reading it. I just like to read it because it’s just it’s it’s just very powerful, retellings of of the gospel message, of of how everything from the old testament pointed forward to the figure of Christ, to the the the lord man, Jesus, and how even his in in his birth, he had already accomplished what like, in his birth like, he was born and men from Persia came to worship him. He was like, even when Jesus was born, he was already reigning. He was already declared as king. And he’s just, you know, immediately greater than than all the patriarchs that came before him.
Jacob Winograd [00:25:10]:
And he suffered and died in such a way that was distinct and different. And that through this, through this very unconventional way of reigning and dying, he has brought again, the the the living waters of the gospel have spread and that he says that the heathens are at extraordinarily high rates now abandoning their false gods, abandoning their false traditions, and placing hope in Christ and enrolling themselves under him and his kingdom right before their very eyes is what he’s saying. So alright. Let me go back to my other page of notes here. Actually, let’s pause for one second. If you like what I’m doing here and, you’re not, you know, you’re not gonna cancel me or write me off for getting a quote wrong in the last episode. Listen. I hope you can tell that I’m putting a lot of work into this.
Jacob Winograd [00:26:03]:
So much that it’s almost too much for me to read through sometimes, and there’s just so much I wanna say, and I don’t wanna go on for 4 to 5 hours. But I I’m really passionate about talking about these ideas and trying to get more people to understand that, you know, the like like, it’s not because I’m compelled by a particular eschatology. Like, we have to be amillennial. It’s not the systematic. It’s the message that the systematic represents. It’s that I do feel this heavy conviction that this is the core message of the gospel and that it has existed throughout the entirety of church history and even pre church history in the old covenant, in the old testament. We can see this message. And it’s it’s the the message of the gospel of hope.
Jacob Winograd [00:26:52]:
And it it speaks not to just our not just to our individual salvation and the internal transformation we can receive in Christ, but it it speaks to our ability to then understand our place in the world as Christians and allows us to be the ambassadors of God’s kingdom that we’re supposed to be, to be fishers of men and to be instruments that bring peace and healing to the land rather than either retreating from it entirely or trying to be dominionists in the wrong way where we’re trying to use the sword and to spread Christianity through through conquest and and coercion in expectation of creating some perfect, you know, golden age, golden kingdom of Christ here on earth in a physical reign. It’s not about a physical reign of Christ. He’s not coming to reestablish some physical kingdom because the physical kingdoms that preceded were were just pointing to the the kingdom of Christ, which is not of this world. It it reaches down into this world, and there’ll be a new heavens and a new earth. And we should wanna see transformed culture and transformed societies, but that comes from transformed individuals. It doesn’t come through government. It doesn’t come through the institutions of man. It comes through the body of Christ.
Jacob Winograd [00:28:16]:
Comes through those living waters going out again and comes and it it like, just imagine being in that early church setting and being like Athanasius and writing about this and seeing the explosion and growth of Christianity. You know, they weren’t having the same debates back then that we are now. You know, they were debating Christological heresies. But even then, the the importance of understanding the the nature of Christ’s strain in his kingdom in relation to the physical kingdom that came before comes through and what Athanasius is writing about. And all this to say, if you appreciate what I’m doing here and and you enjoy this content yeah. Like, first of all, please like this video and subscribe. It means a lot. And, we could really use more 5 star reviews and written reviews on apple and Spotify and etcetera.
Jacob Winograd [00:29:10]:
And, yeah, I know you probably get tired of hearing this from me and other people, and we just we make a point of saying it because, you know, I I track the you know, everyone does this. You can track how many people listen to your show, how long they listen for. And, you know, I can see that there’s a lot of you listening and I, I greatly appreciate that. And I don’t want you to go. I want you to keep listening, but just, you know, hit that thumbs up and some subscribe if you haven’t already or leave a 5 star review that helps us out a lot because I hope that this message can grow. And then the more people watch the, that also helps us with getting more funding to the libertarian Christian Institute, because it’s, it’s a lot of time that goes into this and, you know, it’s not free. None of this is, you know, you’ve gotta pay for equipment, you gotta pay for production, you gotta pay, or even just be able to justify the amount of hours that go into working on this kind of stuff. And I’m not in I’m not in it for the money, but I’m not I’m not an anticapitalist.
Jacob Winograd [00:30:10]:
I’m not against making money. It’s you know, pastors can make an earning doing what they do, and, I’m not against making an earning for what I do because that allows me to continue doing it and to hopefully continue to do it better and to do it in service to our, our, our Lord, Jesus Christ, and to preaching about his kingdom. And I want to do that more. So if you go to biblical anarchypodcast dotcom and look for the donate button or, or libertarianchristians.com, locate, locate the donate button. If you wanna come in and become an LCI insider for $10 or more a month, that makes our day. And we’ve already there. Listen. There’s I’m saying this because there’s a lot of you who haven’t, but also there’s a lot of you who have, and I really appreciate that as well.
Jacob Winograd [00:30:52]:
It means a lot. Alright. Let’s dive back into this. So I read section 37 there, which, again highlighted the physical differences between Christ and the patriarchs and also their deaths, and that this is a unique mark of the Messiah. And again, this is all relating to what I talked about in episode 75, how the new covenant is established through Christ’s death and moves beyond the physical lineage of Israel, brings all the nations into the fold. So the victory over idolatry, the victory over the the heresies that followed, the fulfillment of these prophetic promises. So now we’re gonna move on to section 40. And so let me pull that up here.
Jacob Winograd [00:31:43]:
So this is a very powerful section in section 40. Athanasius turns to Daniel’s prophecy about the coming messiah who is not only a king, but the holy of holies. And this underscores the sanctity and divine nature of the messiah’s reign. Let me pull that up here. Sorry. I have way too many tabs, by the way, right before this. So actually this was yeah. In in section 39, he goes through the arguments about the different weeks and how we know when the Christ was going to come.
Jacob Winograd [00:32:20]:
And then sorry. I’m just trying to find it. It’s a long section here, and I’m just trying to find so 39 and 40. Alright. So the Jews are trifling, the time in question, this is Athanasius here, which they refer to the future is actually come. For when did the prophet and vision cease from Israel, save when Christ came the holy of holies? So he’s saying there’s no more prophets, no more visions coming from the Jewish people. That’s because the Christ came and he is the fulfillment of all this, saying so back to his words, for it is a sign and important proof of the coming of the word of God that Jerusalem no longer stands, nor is any prophet raised up nor vision revealed to them, and that very naturally. For when he that was signified had come, what need was there any longer of any to signify him? When the truth was there, what need any more of the shadow? For this was the reason of their prophesying at all, namely, till the true righteousness should come and he that was to ransom the sins of all.
Jacob Winograd [00:33:33]:
And this is why Jerusalem stood till then, namely that there might be exercised in the types as a preparation for the reality. So when the holy of holies had come, naturally, vision and prophecy were sealed and the kingdom of Jerusalem ceased. For the kings were to be anointed among them only until the holy of holies should have been anointed. And Jacob prophesies that the kingdom of the Jews should not be established until him or sorry. It should be established until him as follows. The ruler, this is Genesis 4910, shall not fail from Judah nor the prince from his loins until that which is laid up for him shall come, and he is the expectation of the nations. Whence the savior also himself cried aloud and said, the law and the prophets prophesied until John. If then there is not there is now among the Jews a king or prophet or vision, they do well to deny that the Christ has come.
Jacob Winograd [00:34:43]:
But if there is neither king nor vision, but from that time forth, all prophecy is sealed and the city and temple taken, why are they so irreligious and so perverse as to see what has happened and yet to deny Christ who has brought it all to pass. And he goes on so much longer here and I can just keep reading it. You can just do it. We’ll do it. We’ll do another, you know, a series of podcasts, just like where people just read writings and books. And I’ll just read Athanasius all day long. But, yeah, he’s saying, like, we have the Christ. Jesus has come.
Jacob Winograd [00:35:20]:
He’s reigning. We the other stuff was just the shadow. We don’t have any need again at more of the shadow. These things just pointed to what we already have. Why would we go back? Jerusalem, the city, the land, the kingdom, that was just there to usher in the Christ, to point to him. So this this not only is is significant in speaking to how how Christ is the fulfillment of, like, the kingdom aspects here, but also, like, that the the talking about how the physical reign doesn’t matter. Even we can logically follows that he’s criticizing even, like, you know, like, the the land itself, the promise of the land. These were all promised and given and and continued only in service towards the coming of the holy of holies and not for past that.
Jacob Winograd [00:36:16]:
A lot of dispensationalists, even premillennialists, will argue that, like, god can’t break his promises. Well, God promised them a land for a specific reason. And it gets into I I covered this in past episodes. I’ll have those linked in the show notes as well. What does it mean by an everlasting covenant? You’ll hold the land, you know, for forever. I mean, it could because it it can mean, like, 2 things at once because the word Olam doesn’t always necessarily mean forever. It could just mean for a long time. But one could argue it’s also it’s a a fulfillment hermeneutic that, like, you know, it’s the same way that Jesus fulfills a lot of messianic prophecy, but it’s not, like, fulfilled maybe in the, like, by the letter on the face way that some people were expecting.
Jacob Winograd [00:37:04]:
You know, they were expecting a physical savior to come and to, you know, actually, like, bring physical peace in terms of, like, the you know, bringing every nation and kingdom to bow to and submit to the the physical kingdom of Israel. Well, that that’s not what Jesus did. The peace that he’s bringing and the reconciliation he’s bringing is is so much greater than that. It speaks to a conflict that is not merely men between other men, but between men and God that I spoke about last week. And so what I’m what I’m getting at at here is that what what Jesus comes to do subverts the expectations of of the Jewish people. So but that’s because they didn’t understand how those things were were promised and fulfilled, and the land can be part of that understanding and fulfillment. Kind of what Athanasius is talking about is that even but the fact that Jerusalem no longer stands, it’s not like, well, it has to come back because God promised it. He’s like, no.
Jacob Winograd [00:38:04]:
It was this was always just to point to and to signify Christ. And now Christ has come. The holy of holy has come. So these these promises haven’t been broken. They’ve been fulfilled. They’ve been completed. The the forever aspect of that co of of those promises are fulfilled in Christ’s forever reign. It’s like, I I I’m I’m repeating myself here from past episodes.
Jacob Winograd [00:38:29]:
I made this argument before. If I, like, say let’s say I promise to you that, like, I’m gonna give you, like, we had a deal and I was like, and and what I’m gonna provide you in this deal was like a $100. And then the time comes to, like, make good on my promise. But instead of giving you a $100, I give you, like, I don’t know, like, $10,000 in gold, or I I give you something more precious than gold or money. Like, I give you you know, I help you find your wife and your but you know what I mean? Like, I pay you back by, like instead of giving you money, I bring something that has greater significance and meaning to you. You know what I just all that to say, like, God didn’t break the promise because now, like, he said, I’m gonna give you something, and then he, like, you know, just said, well, whatever. Screw screw you guys. I’m not doing anything.
Jacob Winograd [00:39:17]:
He’s like, well, I gave you this. I gave you this land. I gave you this kingdom. I I I protected you. I established a law in you, and you broke this covenant, but I still, you know, use this towards the ultimate redemptive purpose that I had been working towards that’s been foreshadowed through all of these different passages. And that’s what Athanasius is talking about and everything I’m reading here. He’s just like, you know, he he’s, he’s like to the Jewish people. And he’s like, some people might be like, oh, this sounds anti Semitic or something like that.
Jacob Winograd [00:39:51]:
Like, you know, was he being so, yeah. I don’t think he’s like, hating the Jews. I think he’s like, you know, like, dumbstruck. He’s just like, how can you not see? He’s like, it’s just it’s all right there. It’s so clear as day that that the Christ is is the figure you were waiting for. And so many of you missed him and you don’t have to continue missing him. You can you can be part of the promises that were given to Abraham and his cuff the covenant that God made with him. We can be part of that through being one with the true offspring of Abraham, which is Christ, Galatians 3.
Jacob Winograd [00:40:28]:
Alright. Let’s try to bring this to a close. This is this is gonna be a full episode. I’m calling it now. So, man, there’s there’s so much more I wanna I wanna read here, and I’m I’m I’m I know I’m gonna have to short. Alright. So, yeah, episode sorry. No episode.
Jacob Winograd [00:40:46]:
Yeah. So Genesis 4910 is a foundational messianic prophecy where Jacob, in blessing his sons, foretells a ruler from the tribe of Judah. So and I I read that before, but it was said that the scepter will not depart from Judah nor the ruler staff between his feet until, he who comes until he comes to whom it belongs and the obedience of the nations is his. And so Athanasius refers this as referring directly to Christ who was a descendant of Judah. He’s the one whom the scepter belongs, and he has drawn all nations to himself. Again, not physically, not like in this overt way that the Jews maybe were expecting that postmillennialists and premillennialists are kind of expecting like, oh, he still has to do that. Athanasius is like, he’s already done it. He is the expectation of the nations.
Jacob Winograd [00:41:36]:
He’s bringing even back in the, you know, several 100 years after the coming of Christ. He’s like, this is happening. Like, you were witnessing the the, the reconciliation of the nations of people abandoning their idolatry and coming to Christ, coming to worship the God of the Jews, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, of Jacob. He’s like, Christ is doing what none of your kings could do. And so he emphasizes that Christ is the holy of holies, the expectation of the nations foretold in Genesis 4910. All this that the the moment when Israel’s earthly kingship would give way, the prophecy this prophecy in Genesis is pointing to that it would give way to the eternal reign of the messiah. This is fulfilled in Christ. When Christ was anointed at his coming, it marked the transition from a temporary earthly rule to a universal eternal, spiritual kingdom and kingship.
Jacob Winograd [00:42:34]:
So to conclude here, and there’s so much more from Athanasius I could read, but we can see his writings reinforce the point I made in episode 75 about the messianic kingdom, the new covenant, and the fulfillment of the prophecies in Isaiah and elsewhere. The comparison between Christ and the patriarchs of Israel show that while figures like David and Solomon played significant roles in salvation history, it was only Christ who could truly fulfill the prophetic hope for a king who would reign forever and bring peace and salvation to the nations. The, yeah, the summary that I mistakenly attributed to him wasn’t a direct quote, and I own that mistake. But I think when you read this and this was all just from on the incarnation. If I had more time, I’d dive into the festal let letters I talked about, because there’s a lot there that ties into and even builds on a lot of this and his his theological views. You know? And, you know, Athanasius isn’t you know, he didn’t focus on eschatology. He focused on on Christology. That was that was what the heresies at the time were dealing with the Arians.
Jacob Winograd [00:43:42]:
But you can see that, like, we’re back in episode 74. I was talking about how, like, this is all connected. Like, our Christology lines up with our eschatology, which lines up with our understanding of of the gospel and and the nature our soteriology and the nature of of salvation. This is all one cohesive picture. And Athanasius just brilliantly kinda like, you know, when he’s talking, is making a unified explanation of the gospel that has a consistent eschatology and a consistent Christology and a consistent soteriology. And his ideas, you know sorry. Yeah. His ideas emphasize the temporary nature nature of Israel’s physical kingdom.
Jacob Winograd [00:44:29]:
There there’s so much there. I wish that I had more time to dive into it. But in conclusion, I think that you can see that the summary I gave and and attributed to him, that was a mistake, but the summary itself was pretty spot on. And this I could do this for more than just Athanasius. There are so many there there are some church fathers who were very, you know, very much explicitly premillennialists, and and I I wouldn’t doubt that. But there the point just being that there are church fathers going back very, you know, early. You know, we can even look at writings from Chrysostom and others. And they their understanding of of the kingdom of God, it definitely wasn’t like a dispensationalist view.
Jacob Winograd [00:45:15]:
And they definitely understood as the church grew and exploded, that they were witnessing the kingdom of God here on earth and that it was in their midst and that it was growing. And that even if there is some kind of future physical reign, that that that might like like I said before, maybe that’s gonna happen, but that’s not really what’s explicitly promised, and that’s not what our expectation or should be. Our expectation should be not that, like, oh, God has to fulfill his promises to the Jewish people and reestablish some kind of physical kingdom there and give them all the land. That that’s what I’m speaking against. Because not only does that lead to really bad political calculations in the here and now, it’s a distortion of the gospel message. And that’s why I’ve been harping on this. And I got a couple more episodes to harp harp on this. So we’ll continue this in next week’s episode, just to preview that for you a little bit.
Jacob Winograd [00:46:17]:
We’re gonna dive. So I’ve I’ve gone through, like, the prophets. Right? Well, next week, we’re gonna dive more into sort of, like, the specific ways in which the old testament, even going back to like Deuteronomy and Genesis and Exodus and the Psalms, what they had to say about the future messianic reign and the new covenant, how they’re even foreshadowed there. So we’re gonna do that, and then we’ll move into the new testament. And I think we’ll kind of finish things off there. So I think we have kind of, like, 2 more episodes in this series, at least. Although if you guys like this series and you want me to kind of continue it, maybe I should start doing more episodes like this where I do deep dives on specific church fathers or maybe even, like, groups within church history. That might be something that I I I start doing as well.
Jacob Winograd [00:47:08]:
But that’ll wrap up today’s originally planned bonus now become full episode of the biblical anarchy podcast. Please make sure again, like subscribe, reviews, share it around, become an LCI insider if you want to, but above all live at peace, live for Christ, go out there and be fishers of men, live for his kingdom. God bless. Talk to you next week.
Knowledgeable Narrator [00:47:33]:
The Biblical Anarchy Podcast is a part of the Christians for Liberty Network, a project it helps us reach more with a message of freedom when you rate and review us on your favorite podcast apps and share with others. If you want to support the production of the biblical anarchy podcast, please consider donating to the libertarian Christian institute@biblicalanarchypodcast.com, where you can also sign up to receive special announcements and resources related to biblical anarchy. Thanks for tuning in.