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	<title>Comments on: ImmiGreat</title>
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	<link>http://libertarianchristians.com/2010/04/17/immigreat/</link>
	<description>The State is not the Kingdom of God.</description>
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		<title>By: I Am Not a Number &#124; LibertarianChristians.com</title>
		<link>http://libertarianchristians.com/2010/04/17/immigreat/comment-page-1/#comment-4023</link>
		<dc:creator>I Am Not a Number &#124; LibertarianChristians.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 17:07:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertarianchristians.com/2010/04/17/immigreat/#comment-4023</guid>
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		<title>By: Norman Horn</title>
		<link>http://libertarianchristians.com/2010/04/17/immigreat/comment-page-1/#comment-2591</link>
		<dc:creator>Norman Horn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 08:11:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertarianchristians.com/2010/04/17/immigreat/#comment-2591</guid>
		<description>Ok, but if you *restrict* immigration more, you just manage to encourage more illegal immigration, all other things equal. Which means that to enforce it, you&#039;ll need a bigger and bigger state with more and more power. Don&#039;t you think that such a cost is just as high, if not higher, than welfare statism, and increases the violence overall toward those who, on the average, don&#039;t mean any harm? &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;On the other hand, if you make it more feasible to immigrate legally, aren&#039;t you simply following a more open immigration policy anyway?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Immigration away from oppressive regimes to what *should* be a more free country is what this is all about. To keep making it more difficult for Lady Liberty to say &quot;give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free...&quot; seems counter-intuitive at least to me.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Don&#039;t get me wrong, I&#039;m concerned about unsustainable trends and I think it is an issue, but we need to pull a Henry Hazlitt here and get to the bottom of the issue. The *State* is *always* the problem, not the innocent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, but if you *restrict* immigration more, you just manage to encourage more illegal immigration, all other things equal. Which means that to enforce it, you&#39;ll need a bigger and bigger state with more and more power. Don&#39;t you think that such a cost is just as high, if not higher, than welfare statism, and increases the violence overall toward those who, on the average, don&#39;t mean any harm? </p>
<p>On the other hand, if you make it more feasible to immigrate legally, aren&#39;t you simply following a more open immigration policy anyway?</p>
<p>Immigration away from oppressive regimes to what *should* be a more free country is what this is all about. To keep making it more difficult for Lady Liberty to say &#8220;give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free&#8230;&#8221; seems counter-intuitive at least to me.</p>
<p>Don&#39;t get me wrong, I&#39;m concerned about unsustainable trends and I think it is an issue, but we need to pull a Henry Hazlitt here and get to the bottom of the issue. The *State* is *always* the problem, not the innocent.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://libertarianchristians.com/2010/04/17/immigreat/comment-page-1/#comment-2590</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 07:32:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertarianchristians.com/2010/04/17/immigreat/#comment-2590</guid>
		<description>The problems with immigration are certainly minor compared with the welfare state or the warfare state or the gigantic fiscal mess government has created.  I couldn&#039;t agree more.  But rapid and uncontrolled immigration is still a real problem, like the complaints Arizonians have registered.  They&#039;re just left to live with the issues while to most Americans it is a non-issue.  I think it is both prudent and thoughtful to manage immigration in a way that maximises the benefits and minimises the liabilities.  But the Federal government can&#039;t do anything right,  except elections and parades, I suppose.  Doug+</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problems with immigration are certainly minor compared with the welfare state or the warfare state or the gigantic fiscal mess government has created.  I couldn&#39;t agree more.  But rapid and uncontrolled immigration is still a real problem, like the complaints Arizonians have registered.  They&#39;re just left to live with the issues while to most Americans it is a non-issue.  I think it is both prudent and thoughtful to manage immigration in a way that maximises the benefits and minimises the liabilities.  But the Federal government can&#39;t do anything right,  except elections and parades, I suppose.  Doug+</p>
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		<title>By: Norman</title>
		<link>http://libertarianchristians.com/2010/04/17/immigreat/comment-page-1/#comment-2589</link>
		<dc:creator>Norman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jul 2010 22:51:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertarianchristians.com/2010/04/17/immigreat/#comment-2589</guid>
		<description>@Doug: While I kind of understand what you&#039;re saying... I think there are some problems.

Regarding (1), how about we say instead that it&#039;s just &lt;i&gt;foolish to have a welfare state?&lt;/i&gt; Immigration is a &lt;i&gt;good&lt;/i&gt;, but a welfare state is a &lt;i&gt;bad&lt;/i&gt;. I don&#039;t want to punish a &lt;i&gt;good&lt;/i&gt; because a &lt;i&gt;bad&lt;/i&gt; exists. On the contrary, I will focus ever more attention on eliminating the &lt;i&gt;bad&lt;/i&gt;.

However, a welfare state does provide a &lt;i&gt;perverse incentive&lt;/i&gt; in the &quot;market for immigration,&quot; which is why immigration is likely more rapid than it might be otherwise. But even if it were not, supply and demand would put an economic limitation on immigration so that it wouldn&#039;t get &lt;i&gt;too rapid&lt;/i&gt;. It would simply become too costly for everyone, and so only those who truly desired to live in the area (and those who would more likely hold to the general values of that area) would choose to immigrate in. Make sense?

In sum, I find it distasteful for the government to divert attention from REAL problems, i.e. the health-care/welfare/fiat money/warfare state, to the minor problem of immigration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Doug: While I kind of understand what you&#8217;re saying&#8230; I think there are some problems.</p>
<p>Regarding (1), how about we say instead that it&#8217;s just <i>foolish to have a welfare state?</i> Immigration is a <i>good</i>, but a welfare state is a <i>bad</i>. I don&#8217;t want to punish a <i>good</i> because a <i>bad</i> exists. On the contrary, I will focus ever more attention on eliminating the <i>bad</i>.</p>
<p>However, a welfare state does provide a <i>perverse incentive</i> in the &#8220;market for immigration,&#8221; which is why immigration is likely more rapid than it might be otherwise. But even if it were not, supply and demand would put an economic limitation on immigration so that it wouldn&#8217;t get <i>too rapid</i>. It would simply become too costly for everyone, and so only those who truly desired to live in the area (and those who would more likely hold to the general values of that area) would choose to immigrate in. Make sense?</p>
<p>In sum, I find it distasteful for the government to divert attention from REAL problems, i.e. the health-care/welfare/fiat money/warfare state, to the minor problem of immigration.</p>
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		<title>By: Norman Horn</title>
		<link>http://libertarianchristians.com/2010/04/17/immigreat/comment-page-1/#comment-3200</link>
		<dc:creator>Norman Horn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jul 2010 22:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertarianchristians.com/2010/04/17/immigreat/#comment-3200</guid>
		<description>@Doug: While I kind of understand what you&#039;re saying... I think there are some problems.

Regarding (1), how about we say instead that it&#039;s just &lt;i&gt;foolish to have a welfare state?&lt;/i&gt; Immigration is a &lt;i&gt;good&lt;/i&gt;, but a welfare state is a &lt;i&gt;bad&lt;/i&gt;. I don&#039;t want to punish a &lt;i&gt;good&lt;/i&gt; because a &lt;i&gt;bad&lt;/i&gt; exists. On the contrary, I will focus ever more attention on eliminating the &lt;i&gt;bad&lt;/i&gt;.

However, a welfare state does provide a &lt;i&gt;perverse incentive&lt;/i&gt; in the &quot;market for immigration,&quot; which is why immigration is likely more rapid than it might be otherwise. But even if it were not, supply and demand would put an economic limitation on immigration so that it wouldn&#039;t get &lt;i&gt;too rapid&lt;/i&gt;. It would simply become too costly for everyone, and so only those who truly desired to live in the area (and those who would more likely hold to the general values of that area) would choose to immigrate in. Make sense?

In sum, I find it distasteful for the government to divert attention from REAL problems, i.e. the health-care/welfare/fiat money/warfare state, to the minor problem of immigration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Doug: While I kind of understand what you&#8217;re saying&#8230; I think there are some problems.</p>
<p>Regarding (1), how about we say instead that it&#8217;s just <i>foolish to have a welfare state?</i> Immigration is a <i>good</i>, but a welfare state is a <i>bad</i>. I don&#8217;t want to punish a <i>good</i> because a <i>bad</i> exists. On the contrary, I will focus ever more attention on eliminating the <i>bad</i>.</p>
<p>However, a welfare state does provide a <i>perverse incentive</i> in the &#8220;market for immigration,&#8221; which is why immigration is likely more rapid than it might be otherwise. But even if it were not, supply and demand would put an economic limitation on immigration so that it wouldn&#8217;t get <i>too rapid</i>. It would simply become too costly for everyone, and so only those who truly desired to live in the area (and those who would more likely hold to the general values of that area) would choose to immigrate in. Make sense?</p>
<p>In sum, I find it distasteful for the government to divert attention from REAL problems, i.e. the health-care/welfare/fiat money/warfare state, to the minor problem of immigration.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Smith</title>
		<link>http://libertarianchristians.com/2010/04/17/immigreat/comment-page-1/#comment-2575</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jul 2010 03:59:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertarianchristians.com/2010/04/17/immigreat/#comment-2575</guid>
		<description>I support immigration for all but the first reason listed.  However, I oppose free and open immigration for the following two reasons.  

1.  It is utterly foolish in a welfare state in spite of the benefits listed.

2.  It is simply natural to desire stability in the communities we live in.  Slow evolution is good.  Some neighborhoods and small towns have been swamped by people of disparate cultures.  They are not bad people, they just do not welcome change that is too great and too rapid.  It seems only fair to be first concerned about the interests and feelings of indigenous people before we worry about the natural rights of immigrants.  I would use the same argument if Germans were flooding into Sri Lanka.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I support immigration for all but the first reason listed.  However, I oppose free and open immigration for the following two reasons.  </p>
<p>1.  It is utterly foolish in a welfare state in spite of the benefits listed.</p>
<p>2.  It is simply natural to desire stability in the communities we live in.  Slow evolution is good.  Some neighborhoods and small towns have been swamped by people of disparate cultures.  They are not bad people, they just do not welcome change that is too great and too rapid.  It seems only fair to be first concerned about the interests and feelings of indigenous people before we worry about the natural rights of immigrants.  I would use the same argument if Germans were flooding into Sri Lanka.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Smith</title>
		<link>http://libertarianchristians.com/2010/04/17/immigreat/comment-page-1/#comment-3199</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jul 2010 03:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertarianchristians.com/2010/04/17/immigreat/#comment-3199</guid>
		<description>I support immigration for all but the first reason listed.  However, I oppose free and open immigration for the following two reasons.  

1.  It is utterly foolish in a welfare state in spite of the benefits listed.

2.  It is simply natural to desire stability in the communities we live in.  Slow evolution is good.  Some neighborhoods and small towns have been swamped by people of disparate cultures.  They are not bad people, they just do not welcome change that is too great and too rapid.  It seems only fair to be first concerned about the interests and feelings of indigenous people before we worry about the natural rights of immigrants.  I would use the same argument if Germans were flooding into Sri Lanka.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I support immigration for all but the first reason listed.  However, I oppose free and open immigration for the following two reasons.  </p>
<p>1.  It is utterly foolish in a welfare state in spite of the benefits listed.</p>
<p>2.  It is simply natural to desire stability in the communities we live in.  Slow evolution is good.  Some neighborhoods and small towns have been swamped by people of disparate cultures.  They are not bad people, they just do not welcome change that is too great and too rapid.  It seems only fair to be first concerned about the interests and feelings of indigenous people before we worry about the natural rights of immigrants.  I would use the same argument if Germans were flooding into Sri Lanka.</p>
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		<title>By: Politics Hurt &#124; LibertarianChristians.com</title>
		<link>http://libertarianchristians.com/2010/04/17/immigreat/comment-page-1/#comment-2186</link>
		<dc:creator>Politics Hurt &#124; LibertarianChristians.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Apr 2010 14:01:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertarianchristians.com/2010/04/17/immigreat/#comment-2186</guid>
		<description>[...] ImmiGreat  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ImmiGreat  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Norman</title>
		<link>http://libertarianchristians.com/2010/04/17/immigreat/comment-page-1/#comment-2165</link>
		<dc:creator>Norman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Apr 2010 15:04:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertarianchristians.com/2010/04/17/immigreat/#comment-2165</guid>
		<description>@Daniel: Absolutely, it&#039;s no different than people moving between the individual states right now to find work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Daniel: Absolutely, it&#8217;s no different than people moving between the individual states right now to find work.</p>
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		<title>By: Norman Horn</title>
		<link>http://libertarianchristians.com/2010/04/17/immigreat/comment-page-1/#comment-3198</link>
		<dc:creator>Norman Horn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Apr 2010 15:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertarianchristians.com/2010/04/17/immigreat/#comment-3198</guid>
		<description>@Daniel: Absolutely, it&#039;s no different than people moving between the individual states right now to find work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Daniel: Absolutely, it&#8217;s no different than people moving between the individual states right now to find work.</p>
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