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	<title>Comments on: Caesar and God in Context</title>
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	<link>http://libertarianchristians.com/2009/02/10/caesar-and-god-in-context/</link>
	<description>The State is not the Kingdom of God.</description>
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		<title>By: Christopher Bevis</title>
		<link>http://libertarianchristians.com/2009/02/10/caesar-and-god-in-context/comment-page-1/#comment-1219</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Bevis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 17:44:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertarianchristians.com/2009/02/10/caesar-and-god-in-context/#comment-1219</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your comments, Graeme. I found them very constructive.

The words &quot;seems tangential&quot; about the paragraph on currency debasement are just right. I keep referring back to it because it isn&#039;t. Currency debasement relates to Caesar&#039;s idolatry as the fruit does to the root - the corruption of sin begins on the inside, and works its way outward. The living idol eventually believes his own lies, and believes that he can simply decree reality to change to suit his own wishes. Why else do rulers resort to currency debasement?

I agree that I could have made this connection more explicit in the article - but since it was a first ever published effort, was already rather long for what it was, received extensive feedback elsewhere, and was never going to be perfect even in my eyes, you can perhaps understand why I kept tight copyright ownership on it and decided against allowing direct correspondence to me from this site.

After all, if we wait to arrive at perfection in the execution, few of us will ever practise (let alone practice) - will we?

For the record, I wasn&#039;t attempting to separate the size and function of a tax (either &quot;half-heartedly&quot; or otherwise). I was merely acknowledging that not everyone in my intended audience is necessarily a libertarian, and that a good many commentators do try to use this passage among others to legitimise taxes - wrongly in my view (and presumably yours). I was merely showing that even a statist reading of this passage sanctions far less than what the modern state actually demands of us.

This brings me to the subject of coercion. You are only partly right about coercion distinguishing a tax from anything else. A tax is distinct in being levied by force of law, but this is not the same as saying that it can therefore be coercively extracted from the general population by the government regardless of circumstances. How else could tax avoidance be both lawful and lucrative, while tax evasion is a criminal offence in both the UK and the USA?

Anyway, thank you again for your feedback.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comments, Graeme. I found them very constructive.</p>
<p>The words &#8220;seems tangential&#8221; about the paragraph on currency debasement are just right. I keep referring back to it because it isn&#8217;t. Currency debasement relates to Caesar&#8217;s idolatry as the fruit does to the root &#8211; the corruption of sin begins on the inside, and works its way outward. The living idol eventually believes his own lies, and believes that he can simply decree reality to change to suit his own wishes. Why else do rulers resort to currency debasement?</p>
<p>I agree that I could have made this connection more explicit in the article &#8211; but since it was a first ever published effort, was already rather long for what it was, received extensive feedback elsewhere, and was never going to be perfect even in my eyes, you can perhaps understand why I kept tight copyright ownership on it and decided against allowing direct correspondence to me from this site.</p>
<p>After all, if we wait to arrive at perfection in the execution, few of us will ever practise (let alone practice) &#8211; will we?</p>
<p>For the record, I wasn&#8217;t attempting to separate the size and function of a tax (either &#8220;half-heartedly&#8221; or otherwise). I was merely acknowledging that not everyone in my intended audience is necessarily a libertarian, and that a good many commentators do try to use this passage among others to legitimise taxes &#8211; wrongly in my view (and presumably yours). I was merely showing that even a statist reading of this passage sanctions far less than what the modern state actually demands of us.</p>
<p>This brings me to the subject of coercion. You are only partly right about coercion distinguishing a tax from anything else. A tax is distinct in being levied by force of law, but this is not the same as saying that it can therefore be coercively extracted from the general population by the government regardless of circumstances. How else could tax avoidance be both lawful and lucrative, while tax evasion is a criminal offence in both the UK and the USA?</p>
<p>Anyway, thank you again for your feedback.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Bevis</title>
		<link>http://libertarianchristians.com/2009/02/10/caesar-and-god-in-context/comment-page-1/#comment-2934</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Bevis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 17:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertarianchristians.com/2009/02/10/caesar-and-god-in-context/#comment-2934</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your comments, Graeme. I found them very constructive.

The words &quot;seems tangential&quot; about the paragraph on currency debasement are just right. I keep referring back to it because it isn&#039;t. Currency debasement relates to Caesar&#039;s idolatry as the fruit does to the root - the corruption of sin begins on the inside, and works its way outward. The living idol eventually believes his own lies, and believes that he can simply decree reality to change to suit his own wishes. Why else do rulers resort to currency debasement?

I agree that I could have made this connection more explicit in the article - but since it was a first ever published effort, was already rather long for what it was, received extensive feedback elsewhere, and was never going to be perfect even in my eyes, you can perhaps understand why I kept tight copyright ownership on it and decided against allowing direct correspondence to me from this site.

After all, if we wait to arrive at perfection in the execution, few of us will ever practise (let alone practice) - will we?

For the record, I wasn&#039;t attempting to separate the size and function of a tax (either &quot;half-heartedly&quot; or otherwise). I was merely acknowledging that not everyone in my intended audience is necessarily a libertarian, and that a good many commentators do try to use this passage among others to legitimise taxes - wrongly in my view (and presumably yours). I was merely showing that even a statist reading of this passage sanctions far less than what the modern state actually demands of us.

This brings me to the subject of coercion. You are only partly right about coercion distinguishing a tax from anything else. A tax is distinct in being levied by force of law, but this is not the same as saying that it can therefore be coercively extracted from the general population by the government regardless of circumstances. How else could tax avoidance be both lawful and lucrative, while tax evasion is a criminal offence in both the UK and the USA?

Anyway, thank you again for your feedback.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comments, Graeme. I found them very constructive.</p>
<p>The words &#8220;seems tangential&#8221; about the paragraph on currency debasement are just right. I keep referring back to it because it isn&#8217;t. Currency debasement relates to Caesar&#8217;s idolatry as the fruit does to the root &#8211; the corruption of sin begins on the inside, and works its way outward. The living idol eventually believes his own lies, and believes that he can simply decree reality to change to suit his own wishes. Why else do rulers resort to currency debasement?</p>
<p>I agree that I could have made this connection more explicit in the article &#8211; but since it was a first ever published effort, was already rather long for what it was, received extensive feedback elsewhere, and was never going to be perfect even in my eyes, you can perhaps understand why I kept tight copyright ownership on it and decided against allowing direct correspondence to me from this site.</p>
<p>After all, if we wait to arrive at perfection in the execution, few of us will ever practise (let alone practice) &#8211; will we?</p>
<p>For the record, I wasn&#8217;t attempting to separate the size and function of a tax (either &#8220;half-heartedly&#8221; or otherwise). I was merely acknowledging that not everyone in my intended audience is necessarily a libertarian, and that a good many commentators do try to use this passage among others to legitimise taxes &#8211; wrongly in my view (and presumably yours). I was merely showing that even a statist reading of this passage sanctions far less than what the modern state actually demands of us.</p>
<p>This brings me to the subject of coercion. You are only partly right about coercion distinguishing a tax from anything else. A tax is distinct in being levied by force of law, but this is not the same as saying that it can therefore be coercively extracted from the general population by the government regardless of circumstances. How else could tax avoidance be both lawful and lucrative, while tax evasion is a criminal offence in both the UK and the USA?</p>
<p>Anyway, thank you again for your feedback.</p>
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		<title>By: 10 Things I Hate About Taxes #7: Caesar&#8217;s Benevolence &#124; LibertarianChristians.com</title>
		<link>http://libertarianchristians.com/2009/02/10/caesar-and-god-in-context/comment-page-1/#comment-613</link>
		<dc:creator>10 Things I Hate About Taxes #7: Caesar&#8217;s Benevolence &#124; LibertarianChristians.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 23:53:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertarianchristians.com/2009/02/10/caesar-and-god-in-context/#comment-613</guid>
		<description>[...] Thanks to Chris Bevis for inspiring this installment. Make sure to read his guest post on LCC about Rendering to Caesar. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Thanks to Chris Bevis for inspiring this installment. Make sure to read his guest post on LCC about Rendering to Caesar. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas Douma</title>
		<link>http://libertarianchristians.com/2009/02/10/caesar-and-god-in-context/comment-page-1/#comment-315</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas Douma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 19:09:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertarianchristians.com/2009/02/10/caesar-and-god-in-context/#comment-315</guid>
		<description>The other question that Jesus begs is &quot;What is God&#039;s&quot;.  If everything we have belongs to God, what does that leave for Caesar? Nothing.  As Christian&#039;s we should support God, and never the men of governments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The other question that Jesus begs is &#8220;What is God&#8217;s&#8221;.  If everything we have belongs to God, what does that leave for Caesar? Nothing.  As Christian&#8217;s we should support God, and never the men of governments.</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas Douma</title>
		<link>http://libertarianchristians.com/2009/02/10/caesar-and-god-in-context/comment-page-1/#comment-2933</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas Douma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 19:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertarianchristians.com/2009/02/10/caesar-and-god-in-context/#comment-2933</guid>
		<description>The other question that Jesus begs is &quot;What is God&#039;s&quot;.  If everything we have belongs to God, what does that leave for Caesar? Nothing.  As Christian&#039;s we should support God, and never the men of governments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The other question that Jesus begs is &#8220;What is God&#8217;s&#8221;.  If everything we have belongs to God, what does that leave for Caesar? Nothing.  As Christian&#8217;s we should support God, and never the men of governments.</p>
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		<title>By: Graeme Brooks</title>
		<link>http://libertarianchristians.com/2009/02/10/caesar-and-god-in-context/comment-page-1/#comment-283</link>
		<dc:creator>Graeme Brooks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 17:18:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertarianchristians.com/2009/02/10/caesar-and-god-in-context/#comment-283</guid>
		<description>This is interesting, but I find it confusing in places.  The paragraph on currency debasement seems tangential, yet the article keeps referring back to it.  Also, the attempt in the penultimate paragraph to link Jesus&#039; apparent criticism of the blasphemous denarius with modern centralised banking seems strained at best.  Yes, centralised banking and currency debasement are crimes, but are they relevant here?  I also wouldn&#039;t separate taxes by their size or function as this article half-heartedly attempts.  Either coercion can be used to extort resources, or it can&#039;t.  The method of collection, and not the re-distribution, is what separates a tax from any other transaction.

I would read it slightly differently.  A Christian can pay taxes to any kind of state, but in doing so he does not legitimise anything.  He is not offering support to the regime, but simply recognising its coercive power.  By way of analogy, it is not a sin to hand your wallet over to a mugger with a gun, and in doing so you do not legitimise his action.  Your obedience remains with God despite your &#039;victim action&#039;.  So a proper reading would not, in my view, fail to support taxes so much as criticise social contract or tacit consent theories.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is interesting, but I find it confusing in places.  The paragraph on currency debasement seems tangential, yet the article keeps referring back to it.  Also, the attempt in the penultimate paragraph to link Jesus&#8217; apparent criticism of the blasphemous denarius with modern centralised banking seems strained at best.  Yes, centralised banking and currency debasement are crimes, but are they relevant here?  I also wouldn&#8217;t separate taxes by their size or function as this article half-heartedly attempts.  Either coercion can be used to extort resources, or it can&#8217;t.  The method of collection, and not the re-distribution, is what separates a tax from any other transaction.</p>
<p>I would read it slightly differently.  A Christian can pay taxes to any kind of state, but in doing so he does not legitimise anything.  He is not offering support to the regime, but simply recognising its coercive power.  By way of analogy, it is not a sin to hand your wallet over to a mugger with a gun, and in doing so you do not legitimise his action.  Your obedience remains with God despite your &#8216;victim action&#8217;.  So a proper reading would not, in my view, fail to support taxes so much as criticise social contract or tacit consent theories.</p>
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		<title>By: Graeme Brooks</title>
		<link>http://libertarianchristians.com/2009/02/10/caesar-and-god-in-context/comment-page-1/#comment-2932</link>
		<dc:creator>Graeme Brooks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 17:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertarianchristians.com/2009/02/10/caesar-and-god-in-context/#comment-2932</guid>
		<description>This is interesting, but I find it confusing in places.  The paragraph on currency debasement seems tangential, yet the article keeps referring back to it.  Also, the attempt in the penultimate paragraph to link Jesus&#039; apparent criticism of the blasphemous denarius with modern centralised banking seems strained at best.  Yes, centralised banking and currency debasement are crimes, but are they relevant here?  I also wouldn&#039;t separate taxes by their size or function as this article half-heartedly attempts.  Either coercion can be used to extort resources, or it can&#039;t.  The method of collection, and not the re-distribution, is what separates a tax from any other transaction.

I would read it slightly differently.  A Christian can pay taxes to any kind of state, but in doing so he does not legitimise anything.  He is not offering support to the regime, but simply recognising its coercive power.  By way of analogy, it is not a sin to hand your wallet over to a mugger with a gun, and in doing so you do not legitimise his action.  Your obedience remains with God despite your &#039;victim action&#039;.  So a proper reading would not, in my view, fail to support taxes so much as criticise social contract or tacit consent theories.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is interesting, but I find it confusing in places.  The paragraph on currency debasement seems tangential, yet the article keeps referring back to it.  Also, the attempt in the penultimate paragraph to link Jesus&#8217; apparent criticism of the blasphemous denarius with modern centralised banking seems strained at best.  Yes, centralised banking and currency debasement are crimes, but are they relevant here?  I also wouldn&#8217;t separate taxes by their size or function as this article half-heartedly attempts.  Either coercion can be used to extort resources, or it can&#8217;t.  The method of collection, and not the re-distribution, is what separates a tax from any other transaction.</p>
<p>I would read it slightly differently.  A Christian can pay taxes to any kind of state, but in doing so he does not legitimise anything.  He is not offering support to the regime, but simply recognising its coercive power.  By way of analogy, it is not a sin to hand your wallet over to a mugger with a gun, and in doing so you do not legitimise his action.  Your obedience remains with God despite your &#8216;victim action&#8217;.  So a proper reading would not, in my view, fail to support taxes so much as criticise social contract or tacit consent theories.</p>
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